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Thread: What did you do to your F today?

  1. #481
    Aspen and Volare Administrator Rattle Trap's Avatar
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    Haha! Yeah, it currently looks like the Mexican production version. Since that is customized per the US market, I was thinking more custom and use an Imperial header panel modified to fit M hood and fenders and look more like the pre production nose design. That was a wider grille version of the 77 Turbine car.
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  2. #482
    Aspen and Volare Super Member doublechaz's Avatar
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    Does anyone have a reference that really explains the electric choke timer? I'm tring to understand how much voltage/current the thing delivers and for how long.

    I have an 87 lean burn choke timer that I will use if it is similar in operation. (The 87 had the same choke thermostat on it that my 318 has, but I can't find anywhere that lists that as normal.)

    My choke seems to need some current all the time or it starts to close again. The full voltage at startup seems to be close to correct.

    My thermostat is about 3 ohms so about 5 amps at start. Both my old 2 stage timer, and the unknown one from the Diplomat have a 10 ohm resistor in them which if there is nothing funny going on would give something close to 1 amp.
    Last edited by doublechaz; 2 Days Ago at 08:55 PM.

  3. #483
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    It took a bunch of looking but I finally found the service manual section that explains the operation of the electric choke. They hid it towards the end of the "EMISSION CONTROL" section.

    The resistor is used only to reduce the voltage below 55 degrees (at the resistor) to reduce stalling from a too fast choke opening when it's cold. Above 80 degrees the switch bypasses and full voltage is supplied to the choke heater. The power itself goes through the oil pressure switch so there's only voltage at the choke when oil pressure is above 4 psi. Cars with the single stage (round piece only) don't power the choke heater below 80 degrees at all but you have the dual stage with the ceramic resistor also.

    In other words, you would be fine running battery voltage to the heater anytime the engine is running so really, you could do away with the control resistor. You may have stalling before the engine warms up when it's cold out without the resistor but otherwise it'll be fine. I just noticed where you are so maybe "cold" isn't a huge concern.

    Don't know if you'll be able to read it but this is from the manual. Got them out of order but, that's life.
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    Last edited by aspen79; 2 Days Ago at 10:28 PM.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

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    doublechaz (2 Days Ago)

  5. #484
    Aspen and Volare Super Member doublechaz's Avatar
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    Just what the doctor ordered. Thanks! It does ok with the single stage timer. Not perfect, but ok. Soo much better than it was when the thermostat was dead shorted and burned out the timer and the ignition switch. It left the choke on full pretty much all the time and the tank I went through while testing got 8 mpg. Now it mostly opens in about 120 seconds or so, then it is a little too rich for the next 3 minutes or so (probably have a carboned up crossover making this middle stage not work), but not like before where I almost couldn't drive it. Now it's just a little bogged. When it's done after 5 or 7 minutes it runs just right (not counting the random mystery lean that I expect is throttle shaft leakage).

    I autopsied the old dual stage. There are two bimetals in there. One was cooked so bad that it couldn't be closed by any means (it probably stopped deforming when it hit the bottom of the little cavity), the other was welded closed. There used to be a resistor wire wound around the welded one, but that was burned so bad it turned to dust when I touched it.

    I definitely need the choke working right here. We get 10s and 20s at night and 30s to 50s in the day. And now it's good enough to drive again.

    Thanks to everyone who contributed to understanding this relatively complicated part of how a carburetor works.

  6. #485
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, I sometime's forget Arizona has different climate's between Phoenix and say,,,,,,Flagstaff.

    A plugged crossover can cause problems other than a choke not opening or staying open. Without the heat in cold weather, the fuel may not atomize properly or stay atomized. It can end up puddling on in the plenum area, more or less condensing in the manifold. On a stock vehicle, the carb is calibrated assuming a certain temperature (from the cross over) and if it's too cold (or too hot), the carb doesn't know the difference and you'll have various driveability concerns. Also, a plugged crossover won't allow the EGR system to work and since the carb is calibrated for part throttle/light load EGR flow, it can cause surging and/or pinging during part throttle cruise/ light acceleration.
    Last edited by aspen79; 2 Days Ago at 08:34 AM.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

  7. #486
    Aspen and Volare Super Member 77rr2x4s's Avatar
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    Yeah, my first thought was why do you need a choke it the hot Arizona. Not realizing of the actual different climates there. Most people from here that move to AZ all talk about the warm/hot dry climate. I kinda assumed the whole state was like that.
    Last edited by 77rr2x4s; 2 Days Ago at 01:38 PM.

  8. #487
    Aspen and Volare Super Member doublechaz's Avatar
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    Phoenix is like the surface of the sun. I'd be happy with highs of 65, but everywhere that has that has lows of almost -65.

    These are the reasons why I want to go FI. Something about weather or engine state is always changing and the carb doesn't know. The FI does know.

    I thought the BBD was the smallest 2 barrel in the world for V8s, but that lean burn! I thought it was a one barrel at first. Mine runs toward 3 inches of vacuum at wide open and I want to regain that power, but that tiny little lean burn. WTF? It was seriously the same size as the carb on a 1.8 liter antique Subaru engine.

  9. #488
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    Here in north central WI where I live, I've seen as high as 109 and low as -38, lol.

    Yeah, 3" of vacuum at WOT does show the intake side of the engine is choked off. I may go to EFI at some point. With the carb, the A/F readings on the gauge are way different (for example) driving to work at 7am when it's 45 degrees out than they are driving home at 4:30pm the same day when it's 90 degrees. A carb is always going to be a compromise.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

  10. #489
    Aspen and Volare Junior Member taylorswiftttttt's Avatar
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    I almost die every day driving back from work on the freeway at night because I can barely see out of the car. My windows are pretty much permanently fogged up, and the defroster barely works (the vent on the driver's side defrosts maybe 8''x24"). It blows pretty hard, but very little defrosting occurs.

    I thought it was the heater core at first, but I can't smell any coolant so I'm skeptical that's it. Anyone have any ideas?

  11. #490
    Aspen and Volare Super Member 77rr2x4s's Avatar
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    Is the air hot? Could be a partially clogged heater core. See if the heater hoses feel hot going in and out of the core.

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