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Thread: Ranting and Raving

  1. #141
    Aspen and Volare Super Member Mopars1's Avatar
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    I retired after 35 years at a dealer albeit a Dodge dealer. Things don't always work out but there is NO excuse for someone not calling back. That chaps my ass.
    1977 Dodge Aspen R/T Super Pak T-Tops
    2007 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab 4WD
    2016 Dodge Dart GT Sport
    2017 Dodge Challenger R/T

  2. #142
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    I worked at new car dealerships from 1984-2007 (Chevy for a VERY short time, then Ford for 22 years, Audi for 5 years) and then I got smart and GTFO. I will never work for a car dealer ever again. It's so nice not having to deal with new car warranty on flat-rape. Warranty typically pays less than half what a job takes meaning the tech takes it in the a$$.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

  3. #143
    Aspen and Volare Super Member Mopars1's Avatar
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    You sure wouldn't have liked to work at the dealership I retired from. When I started there warranty time was used for customer pay jobs too! You talk about getting the shaft. Luckily we were guaranteed 40 hours pay by the union contract. They tried to cut our hours but the union came in and told them what they would have to do before they cut anyone's hours and they simply and politely said NO! So they finally started using the regular time tables for customer pay.
    1977 Dodge Aspen R/T Super Pak T-Tops
    2007 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab 4WD
    2016 Dodge Dart GT Sport
    2017 Dodge Challenger R/T

  4. #144
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    The Ford dealer I worked at for 21 years used "the book" for customer pay labor times so, it wasn't TOO bad usually. Only trouble is, take a 10 or 15 year old vehicle in this state and you have to deal with heating every single fastener and then repairing the ones that break anyways and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bend over. The Audi/VW dealer labor times were a bleeping joke and the 5 years I was there, they kept cutting them down. Warranty,,,,,,,,,,,don;t even get me started. We had to deal with Chysler warranty on the VW Routan mini-van (Chrysler T&C with a different front end basically) and Chrysler's warranty times suck so bad, it isn't even funny. Always had to love the "if you don;t replace a part, the labor time is zero". In other words, if you diagnosed the problem and it was a loose ground for example, you got paid zip. So,,,,,,,we had to do something that really goes against everything I believe in and make stuff up. Replace a part just so you didn't work 2 hours for free. They want you to "fix it right the first times" and we all do want that but on flat rape warranty, you have to take shortcuts and HOPE the car is fixed. Other choice, do the job the way it's supposed to be done and starve. Flat-rape is the absolute worst way of paying auto tech's.
    Been at an excellent indy shop for almost 7 years and they pay hourly. Funny thing is, I get twice the work done now than I did on flat-rape in the same amount of time and, most importantly, NO STRESS, no short cuts. There's also no jealousy in the shop because "he get's the gravy jobs and I get the crap" type of thing. I would sell everything (except my Aspen), live in a box and scrounge food from dumpsters before I'd ever work at a car dealership again.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

  5. #145
    Aspen and Volare Super Member Mopars1's Avatar
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    You must have had a terrible warranty clerk or whoever ran the repair codes for repairs like you are talking about with Chrysler warranty. We could run a no repair operation code available code that included the part of the vehicle repaired and then you would have to include a narrative to back the claim up for what you did. The code was 85-41-08-00 for a wiring repair and you got paid actual time unless it was deemed too long taken.
    1977 Dodge Aspen R/T Super Pak T-Tops
    2007 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab 4WD
    2016 Dodge Dart GT Sport
    2017 Dodge Challenger R/T

  6. #146
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    You hit the nail on the head. The warranty clerk was useless at the Audi dealer, and then they hired the job out to some outside company and it got worse. That's another thing about new car warranty. You spend half your time doing paper work, writing your story about exactly what you did and why, looking up warranty codes to include with the story, etc. All the time spent on paperwork was another thing yu have to do for free. Somehow, that time isn't included in the actual repair. So, you have a tough diagnosis on a sporadic concern, that requires many miles of road testing to duplicate (if you can duplicate it), all the time doing tests and checks and you finally find the cause of the concern. Then you do the repair and do your best to make sure it's really fixed by another extensive road test. Total time (for example) 3.5 hours. THEN, you spend upwards of 1/2 hour on your paper work and end up spending 4 hours on it. Even with a good warranty clerk, you get paid for 1.8hrs. In other words, you just worked 2.2 hours for free. Bend over and make sure you have a fresh tube of lube. Can't forget the time it takes to get the next R/O. get the keys off the board, go out in the lot and find the car, and finally drive into your work bay. All that time adds up. Basically, go to work 5 days a week for 43 hours a week and when you get your check, you got paid for 27 hours as an example. Yeah I know, preaching to the choir, right? lol I think it's the flat-rape system that gives dealership service departments a such a bad name. You have pissed off tech's who are forced to take shortcuts and do sloppy work just so they can have a hope of paying the mortgage. Get some slow weeks in the shop and you take home a check for 19 hours, even though you had to be there for 43. Screw it! That said, the shop I work at now (and plan to until the day I retire) that pays hourly and stresses QUALITY over QUANTITY (even though the quantity is also high), never has any slow times. I don't think we've had a slow period in at least the past 3 years. Before that, the slow periods lasted maybe a week at most. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it?

    The one that was the "straw" at the Audi/VW dealer where I finally said "that's it, I'm out of here the first chance I get" was a VW Eos. Those are the retractable hardtop with panoramic power sliding sunroof with power sunshade. I had to replace the convertible hardtop assy on one. Now, I don't care if you've done it 50 times in a row and had all the tools and special ass equipment laid out already, it'd still take at least 10-12 hours. I had no training on them at all (was an Audi tech, not VW). It took me 24 hours to do it. There's about 100 fasteners, little cables that run every which way for the headliner and c-pillar covers, hydraulic lines, toothed tapes for the sunroof and sunshade, which also need to be timed exactly, etc. and once it's in, roughly 30 adjustments (not exaggerating) that all have to be dead nuts PERFECT or it will not work. Take a guess what warranty pays for the job? It's a joke, 4.4 hours. Are they on crack? It is physically impossible. My service manager even called VW because he figured it was wrong. Nope, 4.4 hours. In the dealers defense, they did pay me an additional 12 hours out of their own pockets but I still lost a ton of money on that one. Vent, rant, complain, I feel better now!

    One of these things. What could possibly go wrong?
    Last edited by aspen79; 08-24-2019 at 09:39 AM.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

  7. #147
    Aspen and Volare Super Member Mopars1's Avatar
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    I know where you are coming from. We had a car with basically the same top that folded into the trunk but luckily never had any severe problems with them. They had a humongous amount of electrical and sensors that could go wrong. I am certainly glad that I never had to screw with one.On another note we had two door Shadows and Sundances that they put on convertible tops and guess who got to fix all the leaks? You guessed it. Luckily we had a service rep that was a decent guy and he worked on some with me and reported back to Chrysler engineers what was going on and I got paid for all my time to fix the damn things. We were the one dealer in the St. Louis zone that got all the cars that no other dealer could fix and we fixed them so we had it good with the zone reps which helped a lot.
    1977 Dodge Aspen R/T Super Pak T-Tops
    2007 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab 4WD
    2016 Dodge Dart GT Sport
    2017 Dodge Challenger R/T

  8. #148
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    Those Eos tops were (are) nothing but trouble. There's about a million tings that could go wrong. Every operation is timed. If the module is programmed that, for example, the rear window frame moves to the top of the roof and it should take 4.2 seconds. If at 4.2 seconds the hall sensors don't sense it being where it should be, the top operation is halted and the module disables the top. It won't move until the code(s) are cleared and the problem is fixed. Then you factor in the interior trim that has to fold and retract using a crap load of tiny strings and cables that run every which way through eyelets and interconnect with everything else. At the same time, the roofrails have to disconnect and spread apart to fit past the rear seat and move back precisly at the right time and the precise amount when the top goes back up. If the adjustment is even 1mm off,,,,,,,,,,,,,,disaster. They run off linkage hooked to the rearwindow frame, which in turn is run by two hydraulic cylinders through even more linkage and pivots. It's freaking ridiculous. Every single one of the movements you see in the video is timed and any one of them will make the whole thing just stop dead and there you sit. Then the problem is, is it a faulty hall sensor, binding mechanism, a weak hydraulic cylinder or something seemingly unrelated to the fault at hand. Oh, and as you mentioned, water leaks. I honestly don't think it's possible to make them 100% water tight in all situations. Way too many places for water to get in. German engineering,,,,,,,,,,,,it's hyped up to be so great but it isn't really that good. Should be called German OVER engineering. Always the sign of a poor design when it's way over complicated and complex. LOL, I told my "boss" if anyone ever calls the shop with an Eos that has a roof problem, just say no. You'll thank me later.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

  9. #149
    Aspen and Volare Super Member Mopars1's Avatar
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    Yep that is the best policy. Don't let the car cross the threshold into the shop.
    1977 Dodge Aspen R/T Super Pak T-Tops
    2007 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab 4WD
    2016 Dodge Dart GT Sport
    2017 Dodge Challenger R/T

  10. #150
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    Got a rant and it's all my own fault so, mad at myself. I'm redoing the bed sides on my Dakota (again........) and was finally ready for primer/surfacer. Got everything masked off, after finding my masking paper roll. I had moved a bunch of stuff after the flood last spring and hid it really good! The automotive painting plastic sheeting was right where I left it so, that part was no problem. Anyways, got it all pre-cleaned and tacked off. Next step, mix up some primer and shoot. Can of primer, check. Can of reducer for the primer, che.............Wait a second, that's the reducer for the color coat. The primer calls for 421-23 reducer, not 421-20, 21, or 22, which is different temp reducers for the top coat. Son of a.........Now, it MAY work with primer but don't want to take a chance and have some bad things happen. Hmmmmm,,,,,,,,,chase all the way to Mosinee to Advance next to work for some or wait until I'm at work tomorrow anyways. Guess I'll wait. It's the only store I can find of that sells Nason paint AND is open this afternoon. Would be nice to get a couple coats of primer on today but it's not worth taking an hour to go get one can of material.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

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