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Thread: Twin Turbo HEMI build

  1. #801
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    The factory drier should be fine. Inside, they all have the same desiccant, from what I've been taught, and it's good for mineral oil or PAG oil, R12 or R134a. Far as I know, the driers for the new R1234yf systems are unchanged as well, but unlike R12 to R134a, you cannot retrofit to R1234yf. Not that you'd want to anyways, that stuff is currently around $85-$90 per pound wholesale. At the shop, we just got another 10 lb cylinder of the stuff and it was $850 and change. About the same you'd pay for a pound of R12 these days, if you could find a shop that had some yet that is.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

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    Aspen and Volare Senior Member mopar1's Avatar
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    R1234yf is really close in its molecular structure to propane. Really close!

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    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar1 View Post
    R1234yf is really close in its molecular structure to propane. Really close!
    Yes it is, and it's really close to being just as flammable also, but "it's better for the environment", LOL.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

  5. #804
    Aspen and Volare Super Member doublechaz's Avatar
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    There is realistically zero danger in carrying 24 ounces of propane in your A/C system when you have 20 gallons of gasoline in the tank. OTOH propane burns to CO2 and water no matter how you do it whereas R134 and R12 burn to something very similar to the nerve gas that the USSR used to threaten the world with. Propane also works better than 134 to transfer the heat. It was made illegal for A/C use because there is no profit to be made with it.

  6. #805
    Aspen and Volare Administrator Rattle Trap's Avatar
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    At $85/lb it sure seems their slightly modified propane is profitable. Can't wait for somebody to figure out how to just run the $1/lb stuff and we start recharging off the gas grill.
    Volare Magnet

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    Aspen and Volare Super Member doublechaz's Avatar
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    There used to be a propane conversion kit for R-12 systems. I was going to use it on my Volare, but by the time I was ready it was no longer legal for road use. That was years ago. I expect their lobby has pushed through a ban for hockey rinks and meat lockers by now. Why use something perfectly safe and very cheap when you can use something that destroys the ozone, burns into nerve gas and costs more than platinum by weight.

  8. #807
    Aspen and Volare Senior Member mopar1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublechaz View Post
    There used to be a propane conversion kit for R-12 systems. I was going to use it on my Volare, but by the time I was ready it was no longer legal for road use. That was years ago. I expect their lobby has pushed through a ban for hockey rinks and meat lockers by now. Why use something perfectly safe and very cheap when you can use something that destroys the ozone, burns into nerve gas and costs more than platinum by weight.
    All that would be needed is a way to adapt from the propane tank to the gage set. I've read about people running propane in their R12 system with no modifications.

  9. #808
    Aspen and Volare Super Moderator aspen79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublechaz View Post
    There is realistically zero danger in carrying 24 ounces of propane in your A/C system when you have 20 gallons of gasoline in the tank. OTOH propane burns to CO2 and water no matter how you do it whereas R134 and R12 burn to something very similar to the nerve gas that the USSR used to threaten the world with. Propane also works better than 134 to transfer the heat. It was made illegal for A/C use because there is no profit to be made with it.
    Put a flame to R12 or R134a and it decomposes into very bad things. It won't kill you instantly, but it will a day or two later when your lungs basically dissolve. Yeah I know, it's more technical than that. Breathing the unburned gas can kill you also of course, but at least it'll be quick since it'll be from lack of oxygen. Similar to the old chlorinated brake cleaner starting on fire. You get chlorine gas and we all know what that will do to your lungs if inhaled.

    If the system isn't leaking, you won't need to buy refrigerant anyways. if it does leak, the leak(s) get fixed and then recharged one time. Can't speak for propane but I've seen what unapproved refrigerants can do to a system. They may have saved a few bucks using it until it costs hundreds to repair the damage caused. In other words, use the specified refrigerant (or convert R12 to R134a) and it'll cost less in the long run.

    Side note: Please NEVER use any of that A/C Pro type stuff you buy at the parts stores that contain any type of sealant. It might seal the leak but also will seal leaks you want, like the expansion valve or orifice tube, and it can coat the drier desiccant media rendering them useless, etc. We run into that all the time at work and it ends up costing way more than properly fixing the leak in the first place. Plus, it plugs up the recovery machine's $70 filter prematurely. Class dismissed, LOL.
    Last edited by aspen79; 08-03-2021 at 10:33 AM.
    1979 Aspen Sunrise 500". Bought in 1987 with 72,000 miles and a mighty E24 California emission 90hp leaning tower of power/4-speed
    1996 Dakota with a torque monster (not) 3.9L V-6 and automatic owned since 1998. Now demoted to winter duty
    2008 Ford Mustang V6, the new summer daily driver

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    Rattle Trap (08-04-2021), Stalkervette (08-03-2021)

  11. #809
    Aspen and Volare Super Member doublechaz's Avatar
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    I agree to all of that. I don't know if the conversion kit had o-rings of a different material, or a different oil, but without the kit I wouldn't risk messing things up. Too bad since it is way safer, way cheaper and works way better than a 134 conversion as far as moving the heat out. But oh, no! Propane burns. Think of the children! Reeee!

    At least we aren't using pure ammonia like they used to use for ice rinks and other industrial installations. A leak could kill a whole mess of people before they could raise the alarm.

  12. #810
    Aspen and Volare Senior Member mopar1's Avatar
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    I worked at Pepsi and we used ammonia in our chilling systems. once you are in a room with a leak I could no longer smell the ammonia so we used sulfur sticks that were lit on fire. When the ammonia and burning sulfur mix at the leak, the fire flares up.
    Really bad leaks feel like needles poking into your face.

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